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I've been thinking about the similarities between some the het pairings that I like, and also on how those pairings are often portrayed in fandom. Behind the cut is a long meta post about how often the female character of the pairing is excessively hated on in fandom, even in pairings we like.
So, I've been looking into some Dark Angel fanfiction, specifically Max/Alec fanfiction, since that's the pairing I started getting into during season 2. I have to say, I was a little surprised at the amount of Max hatred there was in fics. Being fresh into the fandom, I haven't yet fallen prey to the details and justifications used over and over again in fics to make things work, so I ended up being surprised at how certain things from the show were portrayed in fandom.
There's a lot of fic out there where Max uses/abuses Alec, acts like she hates him even post Freak Nation, where Alec has been secretly in love with Max from the very beginning and his snarky attitude, man whore ways and constant screw ups are actually just defensive reactions to Max's Uber-Bitch ways of treating him.
That's not how I see things at all.
At the beginning I truly believe Max is justified for disliking Alec. Just ignoring the part where he looks identical to Ben, the brother who went crazy, started killing people and then forced Max's hand into killing him, their relationship begins with him helping Manticore use her to poison Logan (though I'd like to point out that before that their interactions, while not exactly friendly, weren't exactly unfriendly either. It was more teasing than anything. You don't go around naming someone you immediately hate.), and then he tries to kill her and Joshua and causes her to lose her chance at fixing the deadly virus thing between her and the man she loves. Yeah. I think her antagonism is a little justified there.
But it doesn't stay that way. They become friends--Alec calls her that in "She Ain't Heavy," and the scenes where Alec is comforting Max, or later on Joshua, Alec and Max seek comfort in each other is proof of that. But even before their relationship starts to deepen, they're still on friendly terms--they banter, they drink together, they play pool together, go on heists together, try and save other transgenics together...the list goes on. Sure, Max is annoyed by Alec and Alec is quite obviously being an ass just to get a rise out of her, and Max still thinks Alec is a screw up and they don't exactly have heart to heart conversations over coffee and scotch until near the end of the season, but Max clearly doesn't hate him. Max tries to find out what's wrong with Alec in "The Berrisford Agenda" and that was even before they really started to be on good terms. And I don't know about everyone else, but if I truly hated someone, I really couldn't give a damn what they're moping about.
So when I see the scene from Freak Nation where Alec is shot in the arm, and Max says something along the lines of "Been there, done that," portrayed again and again in fandom as Max being a complete bitch and not caring about Alec at all, and Alec being all deeply, deeply wounded but hiding it under his form of smart ass stoicism, even though he takes this flippancy to mean that Max still hates his guts and that will never change, I'm a little thrown.
You see, I got something completely different from that small scene. Both Max and Alec's characters are prone to smart ass flippancy, prone to hiding their emotions and things that bother them behind a witty comment and a sharp smile. They are also trained soldiers who know how to push onward and get things done, and how to repress reactions and emotions and even pain until they can keep going--saving all that stuff for when they have down time. So that little scene between them didn't seem bitchy or careless at all. I actually thought there was several layers of communication going on there--between two friends as well as two soldiers. Here's what I saw:
Max sees Alec bleeding and being tended by Dalton and stops as in her tracks.
Max: What's that? Are you okay?/Will this get in the way of what needs to be done?
Alec: A hole in my body, made by a bullet. This is nothing, I'm fine. Don't worry./I'll still be able to fight.
Max: Been there, done that. If you say you're alright, I'll trust you./Good. I need you: there's still work to get done.
See? Two levels of communication. She's checking up on a friend, as well being a good soldier and making sure everyone is ready to act. Sure, it's not as satisfying shipper wise for the intense H/C that fandom loves to indulge in, but it's not mean and careless either. They're in the middle of a tense situation and there's no time for all that. Plus, Max knows Alec is a trained soldier just like her--her short "Been there, done that," is acknowledging Alec's ability to handle himself, just like she did. The flippant way everything is put is just the style in which most of their conversations go.
But that's just one scene that gets portrayed like Max hates him in the fandom, and usually with scenes like that there comes along the Bashing of First Love. So far, most of what I have read is pretty gentle towards Logan--most stories simply implying that Logan would just never understand Max because he didn't experience Manticore, and therefor their relationship could only be superficial, but sometimes it went so far as to make Logan very jealous and hateful towards Alec--even though in the show he never was, even when he thought Alec and Max were together.
This makes me think of when I first started to read Spuffy fanfiction. I was never a fan of Angel to begin with, so a little Angel bashing never really bothered me, (unlike this fandom where I did ship Max/Logan, and very much so in the beginning.) but the hatred in the fandom of the female character was the same, and I remember being just as surprised then as I am now. I've read a lot of fics in the Spuffy fandom where Buffy uses/abuses Spike, who just stoically takes it, because he's just so in love, and then Buffy comes to a realization about how horrible she's been and spends the rest of the fic groveling for Spike's forgiveness. Now, given, Buffy certainly does use and abuse Spike in season 6, and I wouldn't mind Buffy actually showing some guilt and apologizing for that to Spike. But a lot of times in fic that abuse is made such a big deal, is so highlighted and focused on that Spike is made to seem like a complete victim, who never did anything really wrong, and everything he did was just a reaction to Buffy's complete bitchiness towards him and he really shouldn't be blamed for that at all because he's just taking all this terrible woman's abuse, the poor woobie, and of course he's a little messed up because of it.
Now, season 6 was ugly. Yes, Buffy was messed up and hateful and abusive--mentally, emotionally and physically--and she used Spike for sex so she could feel alive. But Spike was not innocent during this season. He also abused Buffy, mentally and emotionally. He deliberately manipulated her when she was vulnerable, saying things like "You belong in the dark with me," so that he could have her to himself. He knew their relationship wouldn't be accepted by her friends so he did a lot to make her feel different from them, keeping her separated from the ones she loved, the ones who she needed to support her doing that time, so that he could keep having the screwed up relationship they had. In season 6 they hurt each other. It wasn't just Buffy hurting Spike, or Spike hurting Buffy, and even though everything Buffy put Spike through that season may have lead to the situation in Seeing Red, it doesn't excuse it, and even though Spike was evil and hurt Buffy a lot through most of the seasons before the second half of five, and that Buffy was confused and tortured and miserable during season 6, that did not excuse everything she did either. It was a painful, messed up situation that both sides needed to take responsibility for. Not one grovel and apologize and angst over, while the other one wibbled and looked on with eyes that secretly hid pain before finally forgiving.
I've also read fics like this with another similar pairing: Veronica and Logan. All three pairings are very similar in dynamics: The female character first has a pure, simple first romance with what was supposed to be her true love (Buffy and Angel, Veronica and Duncan, Max and Logan) but some outside reason forced them to, tragically, be apart, no matter how much they still loved each other (Buffy and Angel have sex and Angel goes evil, Veronica and Duncan might actually be siblings, Max touches Logan and the disease genetically coded to his DNA transfers to him and he dies). How sad. Then most of the female's attention is forced on a guy who starts out as an enemy: they fight, they argue, they grudgingly start to fall in love, but the first love is still hovering in the background, and the female character is damaged and untrusting so they screw up and hurt each other over and over again (Buffy and Spike, Veronica and Logan, and well, Max and Alec never got to that part but I could so see it happening. The virus could stay a problem for season upon season, just like the soul curse thingy did for angel, and then Alec and Max could start to happen--exactly like what's written above.).
I love these pairings. I think they're screwed up and fun, and far more interesting than your cut and dry first love/prince charming thing. But what is it about them that brings about such hate for the woman in fandom? I know I've fallen into this trap--I've certainly enjoyed stories like this (maybe not so over the top, but similar enough), and may have even written something like this before (I don't know, I'd have to reread). Is it because we're so in love with the male character that we feel we'd be a better person for them? So we take it out on the female character, making her mean and hateful because that's how we unconsciously want to see her? And then, because we can't actually write ourselves into the story (I mean, well, we could, but who would read it beside ourselves?) we then make the woman character have a complete change in heart and do what we actually want to do ourselves? Love on the male character, hug him and take care of him like the poor little woobie fandom likes to make him be?
Anybody have thoughts on this?
So, I've been looking into some Dark Angel fanfiction, specifically Max/Alec fanfiction, since that's the pairing I started getting into during season 2. I have to say, I was a little surprised at the amount of Max hatred there was in fics. Being fresh into the fandom, I haven't yet fallen prey to the details and justifications used over and over again in fics to make things work, so I ended up being surprised at how certain things from the show were portrayed in fandom.
There's a lot of fic out there where Max uses/abuses Alec, acts like she hates him even post Freak Nation, where Alec has been secretly in love with Max from the very beginning and his snarky attitude, man whore ways and constant screw ups are actually just defensive reactions to Max's Uber-Bitch ways of treating him.
That's not how I see things at all.
At the beginning I truly believe Max is justified for disliking Alec. Just ignoring the part where he looks identical to Ben, the brother who went crazy, started killing people and then forced Max's hand into killing him, their relationship begins with him helping Manticore use her to poison Logan (though I'd like to point out that before that their interactions, while not exactly friendly, weren't exactly unfriendly either. It was more teasing than anything. You don't go around naming someone you immediately hate.), and then he tries to kill her and Joshua and causes her to lose her chance at fixing the deadly virus thing between her and the man she loves. Yeah. I think her antagonism is a little justified there.
But it doesn't stay that way. They become friends--Alec calls her that in "She Ain't Heavy," and the scenes where Alec is comforting Max, or later on Joshua, Alec and Max seek comfort in each other is proof of that. But even before their relationship starts to deepen, they're still on friendly terms--they banter, they drink together, they play pool together, go on heists together, try and save other transgenics together...the list goes on. Sure, Max is annoyed by Alec and Alec is quite obviously being an ass just to get a rise out of her, and Max still thinks Alec is a screw up and they don't exactly have heart to heart conversations over coffee and scotch until near the end of the season, but Max clearly doesn't hate him. Max tries to find out what's wrong with Alec in "The Berrisford Agenda" and that was even before they really started to be on good terms. And I don't know about everyone else, but if I truly hated someone, I really couldn't give a damn what they're moping about.
So when I see the scene from Freak Nation where Alec is shot in the arm, and Max says something along the lines of "Been there, done that," portrayed again and again in fandom as Max being a complete bitch and not caring about Alec at all, and Alec being all deeply, deeply wounded but hiding it under his form of smart ass stoicism, even though he takes this flippancy to mean that Max still hates his guts and that will never change, I'm a little thrown.
You see, I got something completely different from that small scene. Both Max and Alec's characters are prone to smart ass flippancy, prone to hiding their emotions and things that bother them behind a witty comment and a sharp smile. They are also trained soldiers who know how to push onward and get things done, and how to repress reactions and emotions and even pain until they can keep going--saving all that stuff for when they have down time. So that little scene between them didn't seem bitchy or careless at all. I actually thought there was several layers of communication going on there--between two friends as well as two soldiers. Here's what I saw:
Max sees Alec bleeding and being tended by Dalton and stops as in her tracks.
Max: What's that? Are you okay?/Will this get in the way of what needs to be done?
Alec: A hole in my body, made by a bullet. This is nothing, I'm fine. Don't worry./I'll still be able to fight.
Max: Been there, done that. If you say you're alright, I'll trust you./Good. I need you: there's still work to get done.
See? Two levels of communication. She's checking up on a friend, as well being a good soldier and making sure everyone is ready to act. Sure, it's not as satisfying shipper wise for the intense H/C that fandom loves to indulge in, but it's not mean and careless either. They're in the middle of a tense situation and there's no time for all that. Plus, Max knows Alec is a trained soldier just like her--her short "Been there, done that," is acknowledging Alec's ability to handle himself, just like she did. The flippant way everything is put is just the style in which most of their conversations go.
But that's just one scene that gets portrayed like Max hates him in the fandom, and usually with scenes like that there comes along the Bashing of First Love. So far, most of what I have read is pretty gentle towards Logan--most stories simply implying that Logan would just never understand Max because he didn't experience Manticore, and therefor their relationship could only be superficial, but sometimes it went so far as to make Logan very jealous and hateful towards Alec--even though in the show he never was, even when he thought Alec and Max were together.
This makes me think of when I first started to read Spuffy fanfiction. I was never a fan of Angel to begin with, so a little Angel bashing never really bothered me, (unlike this fandom where I did ship Max/Logan, and very much so in the beginning.) but the hatred in the fandom of the female character was the same, and I remember being just as surprised then as I am now. I've read a lot of fics in the Spuffy fandom where Buffy uses/abuses Spike, who just stoically takes it, because he's just so in love, and then Buffy comes to a realization about how horrible she's been and spends the rest of the fic groveling for Spike's forgiveness. Now, given, Buffy certainly does use and abuse Spike in season 6, and I wouldn't mind Buffy actually showing some guilt and apologizing for that to Spike. But a lot of times in fic that abuse is made such a big deal, is so highlighted and focused on that Spike is made to seem like a complete victim, who never did anything really wrong, and everything he did was just a reaction to Buffy's complete bitchiness towards him and he really shouldn't be blamed for that at all because he's just taking all this terrible woman's abuse, the poor woobie, and of course he's a little messed up because of it.
Now, season 6 was ugly. Yes, Buffy was messed up and hateful and abusive--mentally, emotionally and physically--and she used Spike for sex so she could feel alive. But Spike was not innocent during this season. He also abused Buffy, mentally and emotionally. He deliberately manipulated her when she was vulnerable, saying things like "You belong in the dark with me," so that he could have her to himself. He knew their relationship wouldn't be accepted by her friends so he did a lot to make her feel different from them, keeping her separated from the ones she loved, the ones who she needed to support her doing that time, so that he could keep having the screwed up relationship they had. In season 6 they hurt each other. It wasn't just Buffy hurting Spike, or Spike hurting Buffy, and even though everything Buffy put Spike through that season may have lead to the situation in Seeing Red, it doesn't excuse it, and even though Spike was evil and hurt Buffy a lot through most of the seasons before the second half of five, and that Buffy was confused and tortured and miserable during season 6, that did not excuse everything she did either. It was a painful, messed up situation that both sides needed to take responsibility for. Not one grovel and apologize and angst over, while the other one wibbled and looked on with eyes that secretly hid pain before finally forgiving.
I've also read fics like this with another similar pairing: Veronica and Logan. All three pairings are very similar in dynamics: The female character first has a pure, simple first romance with what was supposed to be her true love (Buffy and Angel, Veronica and Duncan, Max and Logan) but some outside reason forced them to, tragically, be apart, no matter how much they still loved each other (Buffy and Angel have sex and Angel goes evil, Veronica and Duncan might actually be siblings, Max touches Logan and the disease genetically coded to his DNA transfers to him and he dies). How sad. Then most of the female's attention is forced on a guy who starts out as an enemy: they fight, they argue, they grudgingly start to fall in love, but the first love is still hovering in the background, and the female character is damaged and untrusting so they screw up and hurt each other over and over again (Buffy and Spike, Veronica and Logan, and well, Max and Alec never got to that part but I could so see it happening. The virus could stay a problem for season upon season, just like the soul curse thingy did for angel, and then Alec and Max could start to happen--exactly like what's written above.).
I love these pairings. I think they're screwed up and fun, and far more interesting than your cut and dry first love/prince charming thing. But what is it about them that brings about such hate for the woman in fandom? I know I've fallen into this trap--I've certainly enjoyed stories like this (maybe not so over the top, but similar enough), and may have even written something like this before (I don't know, I'd have to reread). Is it because we're so in love with the male character that we feel we'd be a better person for them? So we take it out on the female character, making her mean and hateful because that's how we unconsciously want to see her? And then, because we can't actually write ourselves into the story (I mean, well, we could, but who would read it beside ourselves?) we then make the woman character have a complete change in heart and do what we actually want to do ourselves? Love on the male character, hug him and take care of him like the poor little woobie fandom likes to make him be?
Anybody have thoughts on this?
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